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Post by Nightwalker on Nov 21, 2010 15:13:30 GMT
The fetus has a beating heart as one of the first things that happens.
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Cam
Administrator
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Post by Cam on Nov 21, 2010 18:40:13 GMT
If the parents don't want a child it's their choice, they made it.
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ooop
Junior Poster
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Post by ooop on Nov 21, 2010 19:52:59 GMT
Tough luck, maybe they shouldn't make one If they don't want one? Sometimes I think people that have sex but don't want a baby are selfish and stupid, some people would kill for a child.
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Post by hbk on Nov 21, 2010 22:02:30 GMT
What if it was accidental? Say there was a tiny hole in the condom?
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ooop
Junior Poster
Posts: 12
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Post by ooop on Nov 21, 2010 22:03:56 GMT
If they don't want a child they shouldn't be having sex -_- condom or no condom
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Post by hbk on Nov 22, 2010 6:48:37 GMT
There's nothing wrong with having protected sex.
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Cam
Administrator
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Post by Cam on Nov 22, 2010 8:16:25 GMT
There's nothing wrong with having protected sex. Yes, but can we steer this away from sex
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Post by hbk on Nov 22, 2010 10:53:15 GMT
There is also nothing wrong with having a mature conversation about sex. It will help you grow up.
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Post by Nightwalker on Nov 22, 2010 22:13:15 GMT
The difference between sperm in your body dieing and killing an embryo is you KILLED the embryo...
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Post by Nightwalker on Nov 22, 2010 22:14:46 GMT
There's nothing wrong with having protected sex. That depends on were you come from. If we didn't have condoms you wouldn't have sex if you didn't want a kid...then we wouldn't need to legalize murder for people under the age of 9 months.
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xcessive
Epic Poster
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Post by xcessive on Nov 23, 2010 0:05:02 GMT
ooop and Nightwalker, you have failed to address much of what I have said thus far. As mentioned before, what if the mother is raped, or the child is a health threat to the mother and will likely kill her. Nightwalker: You said "The difference between sperm in your body dieing and killing an embryo is you KILLED the embryo...". Well firstly you cant prove an embryo is alive. Secondly is the embryo not "killed" in the mothers body also? Most abortion pills use the mothers own hormonal system to alter the womb lining thus preventing adequate nutrition (RU-4x pills and many others). Thirdly, most condoms are made of either latex, or latex plus a lining of spermicide. Both of which are deadly to sperm cells. Thus using a condom is "murder" by your logic. Since we produced hundreds of thousands of sperm per day, its murder on a huge scale. Indeed ALL contraceptive pills work by allowing the sperm to DIE without fertilizing the egg. Thus your logic is flawed and it is as much murder as abortion is. On an interesting note, religion has been against stem cell research which could ironically save millions of lives and improve the lives of even more people, because it uses aborted embryonic tissue. If thats not irony I know what is.
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Post by Nightwalker on Nov 23, 2010 0:10:55 GMT
By doing the pill it is still on purpose. If by any action of your own you destroy the life.
I am looking for my sources on how to prove the baby is alive.
You talk about stem cell research but you fail to think about the cost of it. Millions of people are saved by this but billions of people are killed to save the millions. This mindset is so dumb it maddens me.
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xcessive
Epic Poster
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Post by xcessive on Nov 23, 2010 0:22:55 GMT
By doing the pill it is still on purpose. If by any action of your own you destroy the life. I am looking for my sources on how to prove the baby is alive. You talk about stem cell research but you fail to think about the cost of it. Millions of people are saved by this but billions of people are killed to save the millions. This mindset is so dumb it maddens me. Unfortunately you are completely wrong on every count here. I'll go step by step. If you use a condom or contraception, what makes that not "on purpose". There is no distinction, you just don't want to accept that you are committing murder every day. There are no good sources that will tell you the embryo is alive. This is because there is no good definition of "alive". Actually stem cell research produces thousands of cells from a single emrbyo using transfered nucleus cloning. Thus its far more likely 100 die for billions to be saved.
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Post by Nightwalker on Nov 23, 2010 0:30:04 GMT
By using contraception you are preventing the baby from being born therefor killing it.
I do have sources i just don't have them on me. Please tell me when a baby is "alive" because the heart of a baby is beating at 2 weeks old. When do you say it is alive?
Please look up how many embryos have been killed because it is way more than 100...
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xcessive
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Post by xcessive on Nov 23, 2010 0:56:12 GMT
By using contraception you are preventing the baby from being born therefor killing it. I do have sources i just don't have them on me. Please tell me when a baby is "alive" because the heart of a baby is beating at 2 weeks old. When do you say it is alive? Please look up how many embryos have been killed because it is way more than 100... The number of embryos killed at this point is like.. almost none. Because of this very debate preventing research. Don't presume to tell me to look things up, I study this as tertiary education. So you believe an embryo is alive at 2 weeks (its actually 4 weeks when the heart starts beating)? Well stem cell researches can only use embryos younger than 1 week. So... nice discrepancy in belief. Also I can make the heart of a dead man beat by using electrical impulses. A beating heart != alive. nuff said.
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Post by Nightwalker on Nov 23, 2010 1:00:54 GMT
I didn't say that an embryo is alive at 2 weeks. I say it is alive from the moment of conception.
What does make it alive?
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xcessive
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Post by xcessive on Nov 23, 2010 1:45:23 GMT
I didn't say that an embryo is alive at 2 weeks. I say it is alive from the moment of conception. What does make it alive? What makes you alive? Are you even alive at all..? - Ultimately you are just a collection of atoms made of sub atomic particles, made of strings of energy vibrating at a high frequency. No different to a rock, a tree or a cloud of cosmic gas in space. I would say nothing is alive, and even if they are its no different to being dead except that we still have electrical impulses firing seemingly randomly throughout a neuronal network known as the nervous system (most importantly the brain). So anyway, what makes life precious? According to Nietzsche life has no intrinsic value anyway, and I agree with this.
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